OSHAPT
Sophomore Author
Virginia
Posts:161
Points:56,195
Joined:Apr 2008
|
Message Posted:
5/18/2008 9:02:11 PM
|
Ignore OSHAPT Report Abuse
|
|
A step in the right direction.
|
eddmac
Champion Author
Washington
Posts:1,581
Points:413,535
Joined:May 2006
|
Message Posted:
5/15/2008 6:56:25 PM
|
Ignore eddmac Report Abuse
|
|
Saw on History Channel, that a company has developed a solar ribbon, paint(tint) that moves electrons cheaply. But said, they can produce it now, but won't until after 2012. Too late.
|
kengrubb
Sophomore Author
Seattle
Posts:196
Points:25,160
Joined:May 2004
|
Message Posted:
5/15/2008 5:30:10 PM
|
Ignore kengrubb Report Abuse
|
|
Far easier to get PVs on your roof than to find an EV. The PVs are cheaper too. At least until the cityZENNs arrive.
|
357revo
Champion Author
Pittsburgh
Posts:5,618
Points:635,215
Joined:Sep 2006
|
Message Posted:
5/15/2008 5:15:11 PM
|
Ignore 357revo Report Abuse
|
Two of the three setups cannot be duplicated, as the source of the vehicles [and their electric engines] no longer exist. [Chevy S-10EV, of which only 63 are, or were, in private ownership].
Also, it's not clear how much of the charging systems were available at no [or low] cost as a function of the original EV test program.
And none of the three example cases gave "hard" numbers for the capital, installation and operational costs of the sources of electricity.
For example, one guy mentioned buying the electrical solar charging system and a Toyota Rav EV for $45,000 five years ago. And claims he's done paying for the electrical power "next year", after paying $70 per month. $70 per month for 6 years would only provide about $4,500 up front. That wouldn't pay for much of an electrical system, which he claims replaces $90 per month in house electrical cost and $100 per month in gasoline cost to run 10,000 miles per year. Maybe the costs were heavily subsidized by energy tax credits or something, but that wasn't mentioned.
|
POLELANE
Champion Author
Ohio
Posts:1,049
Points:100,675
Joined:Mar 2008
|
Message Posted:
5/15/2008 4:30:03 PM
|
Ignore POLELANE Report Abuse
|
|
hi breds and hybreds and hybrids
|
ccf_jeff
Champion Author
St. Louis
Posts:5,180
Points:876,320
Joined:Sep 2005
|
Message Posted:
5/15/2008 11:19:59 AM
|
Ignore ccf_jeff Report Abuse
|
DocWyeth: I guess the people in the great NW just have to use bikes.
===========
Bikes aren't so bad Doc. The exercise might even help keep the doctor away... well maybe they're bad for some people... ;)
I think we get too many cloudy days in the Midwest as well. Too cold in the winter also. But maybe wind turbines would be cost effective. If they could only figure out how to harness all that energy from tornadoes, and lightning strikes I think we'd be set.
|
ccf_jeff
Champion Author
St. Louis
Posts:5,180
Points:876,320
Joined:Sep 2005
|
Message Posted:
5/15/2008 11:17:02 AM
|
Ignore ccf_jeff Report Abuse
|
YLHandyman: "Nothing is free. What is the real cost for the initial set up.. Probably higher than we want."
Anything above free is higher than we want, but from that article it sounds like it was cost effective for them despite the high startup cost.
The first guy in that article financed the solar system and was making $70/month payments for it. But it eliminated his $75/month electric bill so he would have actually had a positive cash flow right off the bat. Of course it doesn't say how much he put down on the system and I'll bet it was a lot. Even so, if the system lasts a very long time and he has no electric bill and doesn't spend a dime on gas (or electric for his home) despite a 48 mile round trip commute to work each day it seems like it would pay for itself pretty quickly.
I don't think we'd get anywhere near that high a payback here in the Midwest, but it looks quite feasible for some parts of the country. and if they do so that's all the better for the rest of us as it would reduce demand which should help finally put a little downward pressure on prices if enough people did so.
|
DocWyeth
Champion Author
Pennsylvania
Posts:7,941
Points:605,015
Joined:Aug 2005
|
Message Posted:
5/15/2008 11:01:05 AM
|
Ignore DocWyeth Report Abuse
|
|
I guess the people in the great NW just have to use bikes.
|
KrazyDawg
Champion Author
California
Posts:1,537
Points:253,435
Joined:Aug 2007
|
Message Posted:
5/15/2008 10:58:35 AM
|
Ignore KrazyDawg Report Abuse
|
New things/technology cost more. When cars and cell phones came out the average person couldn't afford them. It's a change and it needs to move in this direction. Quit supporting the oil companies.
I checked out gas prices and Chicago is higher than SF now. The top 10 locations are usually occupied by California cities. NYC used to be $.50 lower than CA. It looks like the rest of the country is catching up since CT is higher than CA on average.
|
YLHandyman
All-Star Author
Orange County
Posts:675
Points:104,340
Joined:Feb 2008
|
Message Posted:
5/15/2008 10:58:01 AM
|
Ignore YLHandyman Report Abuse
|
|
Nothing is free. What is the real cost for the initial set up.. Probably higher than we want.
|
blitzntj
All-Star Author
Jacksonville
Posts:672
Points:131,615
Joined:Dec 2007
|
Message Posted:
5/15/2008 10:56:14 AM
|
Ignore blitzntj Report Abuse
|
|
whatever
|
ccf_jeff
Champion Author
St. Louis
Posts:5,180
Points:876,320
Joined:Sep 2005
|
Message Posted:
5/15/2008 10:53:10 AM
|
Ignore ccf_jeff Report Abuse
|
WillyG: "They're only good for very short distances due to the batteries' limited storage capabilities.I suppose they'll due if you work very close to home."
I think they should do quite nicely as a second vehicle for most families. The wife of the first gentleman in that article drove hers 48 miles / day back and forth to work and they thought it worked great. Most people aren't going to drive the typical family vehicle more than the 60 to 120 mile range of most plug-ins.
==========
The biggest perceived disadvantage of electric vehicles is their range. Modern freeway-capable electric vehicles have ranges between recharges of perhaps 60 to 120 miles, which won't get you very far down the interstate (unless you are willing to take time to stop and recharge frequently, like Kris Trexler on his Charge Across America). But many people, including myself, would say this is not a real disadvantage because, realistically, how often do most people drive over 60 miles in a day? Even the lower end of modern electric vehicles' range is enough for most people's daily commuting trips, even where I live in Southern California, and since an electric vehicle can be recharged overnight (usually at cheaper electric rates than during the day, too!) while parked in your garage, all you really need to be able to carry in the "fuel tank" is enough electrical charge for one day's use.
An analogy with a microwave oven is often made by electric vehicle advocates: when they first came out, microwave ovens were derided because they couldn't, for example, cook a Thanksgiving turkey. But how often does one need to cook a Thanksgiving turkey? Which do you use more often, your microwave or your conventional oven? If, in a typical two-car family, one of the two cars was replaced by an electric vehicle, it wouldn't become the "second car": it would be cheaper to use it as the primary car, for the vast majority of commuting, errands, and other driving duties. The conventional car would only be put into service like the conventional oven: on special occasions. (Okay, so maybe my use of this analogy was colored by the fact that, when I wrote it, I was a bachelor and lived on frozen dinners, using my conventional oven and dishwasher mostly for storage...)
But, for those still concerned about range between recharges, advanced batteries like the nickel metal-hydride ones in my digital camera have already been put in modern electric vehicles like the Honda EV Plus and the GM EV1, and even more advanced ones like the lithium-ion pack in my portable computer are being developed; both of these will extend driving ranges compared to the inexpensive but low-capacity lead-acid battery. Also, high-powered quick chargers that can "refuel" an electric vehicle's battery pack in minutes rather than hours have been tested.
======================
If the demand is there, the technology can be developed and improved as can the infrastructure to make it more practical.
[Edited by: ccf_jeff at 5/15/2008 10:54:30 AM EST]
|
pulpwood
All-Star Author
Mississippi
Posts:872
Points:475,050
Joined:Sep 2006
|
Message Posted:
5/15/2008 10:51:30 AM
|
Ignore pulpwood Report Abuse
|
|
It's a start!
|
GRUMPY49
All-Star Author
Twin Cities
Posts:697
Points:641,715
Joined:Apr 2005
|
Message Posted:
5/15/2008 10:51:29 AM
|
Ignore GRUMPY49 Report Abuse
|
|
most junk yards will not take the battries from the cars
|
laddyboy62
All-Star Author
Riverside
Posts:890
Points:857,785
Joined:Mar 2005
|
Message Posted:
5/15/2008 10:50:43 AM
|
Ignore laddyboy62 Report Abuse
|
|
yeah....waiting for this to happen
|
Gerund1
All-Star Author
Toronto
Posts:601
Points:760,120
Joined:Apr 2003
|
Message Posted:
5/15/2008 10:49:39 AM
|
Ignore Gerund1 Report Abuse
|
|
Nice dream. Have you checked the increases in hydo lately?? The main problem with electric vehicles is the range limitations. Oh yes, in the "Northern" North America solar is much less viable due, in part, to battery/storage issues with cold weather.
|
bowler48226
All-Star Author
Detroit
Posts:645
Points:214,945
Joined:Sep 2007
|
Message Posted:
5/15/2008 10:48:25 AM
|
Ignore bowler48226 Report Abuse
|
|
Give me a break.
|
Matts_Pap
All-Star Author
Pennsylvania
Posts:597
Points:103,770
Joined:Feb 2008
|
Message Posted:
5/15/2008 10:46:16 AM
|
Ignore Matts_Pap Report Abuse
|
|
I have the garage roof; now all I need is 45 thousand dollars!
|
NissanGirl
Sophomore Author
Oregon
Posts:151
Points:84,545
Joined:Jan 2008
|
Message Posted:
5/15/2008 10:36:30 AM
|
Ignore NissanGirl Report Abuse
|
|
So what do you do when it is cloudy?
|
gasie1
Champion Author
Maine
Posts:1,338
Points:816,085
Joined:Nov 2005
|
Message Posted:
5/15/2008 10:34:51 AM
|
Ignore gasie1 Report Abuse
|
|
In 5 or 10 years the technology should be improved and everybody will want them because of the price of gas.
|
WillyG
Champion Author
Cincinnati
Posts:1,003
Points:394,370
Joined:Aug 2005
|
Message Posted:
5/15/2008 10:28:49 AM
|
Ignore WillyG Report Abuse
|
|
They're only good for very short distances due to the batteries' limited storage capabilities.I suppose they'll due if you work very close to home.
|
aalix
Champion Author
Orange County
Posts:13,888
Points:2,401,170
Joined:Aug 2001
|
Message Posted:
5/15/2008 10:28:47 AM
|
Ignore aalix Report Abuse
|
I feel this is one of the best alternatives to power your vehicle without gasoline and without large bill from the electric company. To be able to power your house for free is an added bonus. Sounds like the wave of the future.
I wonder how long the car batteries will last before replacement.
|
TheThing
Veteran Author
Quebec
Posts:286
Points:99,070
Joined:Mar 2008
|
Message Posted:
5/15/2008 10:26:50 AM
|
Ignore TheThing Report Abuse
|
|
Not free at all
|
hangupanddrive
Sophomore Author
Michigan
Posts:195
Points:815,765
Joined:Aug 2005
|
Message Posted:
5/15/2008 10:26:41 AM
|
Ignore hangupanddrive Report Abuse
|
|
Would love an electric car if lived in a warmer climate, however in Michigan with our winters cold, an electric car just is not going to work out.
|
torquewrench
Champion Author
Boston
Posts:1,049
Points:203,710
Joined:Sep 2006
|
Message Posted:
5/15/2008 10:24:06 AM
|
Ignore torquewrench Report Abuse
|
|
will not see it in my lifetime
|
NCtransplants
Sophomore Author
Twin Cities
Posts:127
Points:54,785
Joined:Jan 2008
|
Message Posted:
5/15/2008 10:23:44 AM
|
Ignore NCtransplants Report Abuse
|
Why couldn't our elected officials put pressure on the agencies/committees who are responsible for various governmental subsidies and divert those masses of funds into making this a reality? We are busy with space yet our own problems here are quickly overtaking the common man. Seems that our priorities are quite skewed. We need to accept driving more slowly, driving less, fewer miles, eliminate our ego that makes us WANT zero to sixty in a very few seconds, and fashionable exteriors.... What ch'all think?
[Edited by: NCtransplants at 5/15/2008 10:26:57 AM EST]
|
drclark
All-Star Author
Tampa
Posts:703
Points:87,025
Joined:Apr 2008
|
Message Posted:
5/15/2008 10:22:04 AM
|
Ignore drclark Report Abuse
|
|
Plug it in
|
JHTR7
Rookie Author
Wisconsin
Posts:61
Points:57,570
Joined:Mar 2005
|
Message Posted:
5/15/2008 10:21:12 AM
|
Ignore JHTR7 Report Abuse
|
The sky isn't falling chicken little! Educate yourself and K.I.S.S. If they could make a car that ran on tap water or piss and put out no emissions and cost very little, someone would make a fortune. but it has to be simple cheep and a better mouse trap than wee have now.
I would prefer not to think that i am a parasite on the earth that needs to be eliminated..
someone will come up with something that works and we will think he or she is the next edison or ford.
|
southjerseyal
Champion Author
New Jersey
Posts:3,918
Points:638,080
Joined:Mar 2005
|
Message Posted:
5/15/2008 10:21:08 AM
|
Ignore southjerseyal Report Abuse
|
|
Maybe if everyone got this, gas prices would come back down to 28 cents a gallon!!!
|
NCtransplants
Sophomore Author
Twin Cities
Posts:127
Points:54,785
Joined:Jan 2008
|
Message Posted:
5/15/2008 10:20:07 AM
|
Ignore NCtransplants Report Abuse
|
|
RochBear--YES! All points agreed. Thanks!
|
bicycler
Champion Author
Ontario
Posts:5,220
Points:989,395
Joined:May 2005
|
Message Posted:
5/15/2008 10:19:53 AM
|
Ignore bicycler Report Abuse
|
|
Very interesting. BUT, I am moving into a condo- bungalow where the roof will belong to the association. not to me. How that will work I do not know until the rest of the units are sold.
|
maggiemaen
Sophomore Author
Wisconsin
Posts:141
Points:41,960
Joined:Apr 2008
|
Message Posted:
5/15/2008 10:16:28 AM
|
Ignore maggiemaen Report Abuse
|
|
It would be great to have a good alternative to gas.
|
cv
Champion Author
Raleigh
Posts:6,265
Points:1,507,390
Joined:Oct 2003
|
Message Posted:
5/15/2008 10:16:03 AM
|
Ignore cv Report Abuse
|
|
Don't cheer too soon, if electric plug-in cars get real popular, there will be a way found to collect road taxes on the electricity used to charge them. Tax folks stay up all night figuring new ways to get tax from us.
|
MarkJM
Sophomore Author
Little Rock
Posts:168
Points:451,510
Joined:Oct 2005
|
Message Posted:
5/15/2008 10:15:58 AM
|
Ignore MarkJM Report Abuse
|
|
Looks like a pretty decent idea provided you can afford the initial investment.
|
gasforus
Champion Author
Michigan
Posts:1,065
Points:588,685
Joined:Dec 2005
|
Message Posted:
5/15/2008 10:15:54 AM
|
Ignore gasforus Report Abuse
|
|
Sounds good, tell me more
|
RochBear
Champion Author
Minnesota
Posts:1,070
Points:385,025
Joined:May 2006
|
Message Posted:
5/15/2008 10:14:46 AM
|
Ignore RochBear Report Abuse
|
I was talking with a buddy of mine, and we figured if you use Solar and/or Wind to produce the power, and put it back on the grid (during the day, when the car is "at work") and then took the electricity off the grid at night (when the car is home and plugged in) it could be a win win.
Since utility companies have larger generating capacity to meet the peak demand during the day, if solar and wind helped reduce that peak, the utilities would not need to build more generating facilities. (a Huge win for them) If the utility would trade you KW for KW, it would allow you (the car driver) to fuel your vehical for free (after the initial cost).
I found the first guy's comments very good, since he spent $45,000 and got the car and the solar panels. Shoot, my diesel pickup was nearly that much. So for $45,000 he got a car, and fuel for life, plus he eliminated his monthly utility bill (went to 0) It looks like his pay back was 5 years, which is an excellant rate of return. (better than 15%, which is darn tough to make now days)
Currently I have two small solar cells, which I don't power my vehical with, but I use the power to cook meals, and make coffee with. So I have a cup of "Sun Coffee". It's delicious!
|
BoerneWatch
Champion Author
San Antonio
Posts:5,416
Points:693,585
Joined:Oct 2005
|
Message Posted:
5/15/2008 10:10:25 AM
|
Ignore BoerneWatch Report Abuse
|
These guys might be onto something.
In Texas, it is against the law for the taxing districts to tax solar panels or rain water collection systems.
Imagine adding value to your home, not paying for fuel and not being taxed on not paying for your fuel.
|
stvpete
Rookie Author
Minnesota
Posts:46
Points:275,870
Joined:Sep 2006
|
Message Posted:
5/15/2008 10:09:40 AM
|
Ignore stvpete Report Abuse
|
|
All is not lost, Pelosi and Reid will find a way to squeak tax dollars from this yet.
|
KellysDad
All-Star Author
Jackson
Posts:853
Points:283,545
Joined:May 2007
|
Message Posted:
5/15/2008 10:08:46 AM
|
Ignore KellysDad Report Abuse
|
Hamish,
Lots of FREE advice floating around there...unless you talk to an attorney.
|
Dennis783
Champion Author
Wisconsin
Posts:4,913
Points:986,395
Joined:Sep 2005
|
Message Posted:
5/15/2008 10:08:37 AM
|
Ignore Dennis783 Report Abuse
|
|
Of course the Sierra Club is pushing them, but they are still not practical yet.
|
Hamish
Champion Author
Ontario
Posts:14,108
Points:1,582,560
Joined:May 2003
|
Message Posted:
5/15/2008 10:07:32 AM
|
Ignore Hamish Report Abuse
|
Natural gas prices going up
Food prices going up
Gas prices going up
Electricity prices going up
Beer prices going up
The only thing free that's coming down is pollution and acid rain.
|
ts08
Sophomore Author
New Jersey
Posts:164
Points:40,565
Joined:Apr 2008
|
Message Posted:
5/15/2008 10:06:00 AM
|
Ignore ts08 Report Abuse
|
|
so what happens if you have to do a road trip...where do you refuel with more electricity...wonder why the manufacturers canceled the testing...probably realized too expensive for people to buy and they would make no profit if the car never broke down or needed maintenance.
|
brogan56
Champion Author
Colorado Springs
Posts:8,906
Points:1,431,070
Joined:Mar 2004
|
Message Posted:
5/15/2008 10:05:39 AM
|
Ignore brogan56 Report Abuse
|
|
It doesn't have to be a bright sunny day to take advantage of solar.
|
phatride92
Champion Author
Kansas
Posts:3,055
Points:802,875
Joined:Oct 2005
|
Message Posted:
5/15/2008 10:04:53 AM
|
Ignore phatride92 Report Abuse
|
|
ok?
|
Mononen
Rookie Author
Cleveland
Posts:18
Points:11,360
Joined:May 2008
|
Message Posted:
5/15/2008 10:02:47 AM
|
Ignore Mononen Report Abuse
|
|
you still need enough sun to light the solar panals, cloud cover would impede the recharge, here in ohio we have many cloudy days. Ford is building a electric car due out in 2009 but its from Norway, they have been using it for 8 years there. GM's is due out soon as well and it is said that it will bring new life to GM.
|
Sixty4nhalf
Veteran Author
Washington
Posts:321
Points:93,880
Joined:Feb 2008
|
Message Posted:
5/15/2008 10:01:24 AM
|
Ignore Sixty4nhalf Report Abuse
|
|
I agree, nothing is free! They will start charging us for solar power soon
|
Sealer
Champion Author
Charleston
Posts:1,599
Points:173,755
Joined:Jan 2008
|
Message Posted:
5/15/2008 10:01:20 AM
|
Ignore Sealer Report Abuse
|
|
Man made global warming is a myth, but if such things can be justified economically rather than emotionally based on a false premise, they are likely to catch on.
|
Brockvillian
Sophomore Author
Ontario
Posts:206
Points:231,075
Joined:May 2007
|
Message Posted:
5/15/2008 9:59:47 AM
|
Ignore Brockvillian Report Abuse
|
|
Idea is good, but not feasible for the general public.
|
eaglev
Veteran Author
Oklahoma City
Posts:361
Points:210,240
Joined:Jul 2005
|
Message Posted:
5/15/2008 9:57:11 AM
|
Ignore eaglev Report Abuse
|
|
$45,000 for solar panels and the the cost of the car. Not many people have that kind of start up money.
|
